Indianapolis RC South

We have been working on trying to set up a fun pylon racing series for this season. We decided on a 'spec' plane that won't break the bank, and are trying to pin down a set of simple and effective rules to keep it fun, yet allow some leeway for the guys that want to try to make a decent plane even better.

Following are the preliminary rules. They will be shown and discussed at the February meeting. I thought it might be nice to 'let the cat out of the bag' a week early, and possibly get some input or see if there are any details that are not clear.
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Electric Pylon Racing Rules
(V1.1- 6/9/06)

These rules are to allow Club racing in an enjoyable, competitive, low-cost format.

Aircraft: All aircraft must be the stock GWS F-4U Corsair ($56)(http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=GWS1065 ): No modifications allowed to airframe, except Stock spar material can be changed. Landing gear is not required, but may be used. The Slope Glider Version ($30)( http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=GWS1067 ) is available for a spare airframe.

Motor: Any Stock GWS EPS-300 or 350 geared motor is allowed. ($17) (The kits are inconsistent in which motor and ratio is shipped, and this will allow guys to play with ratios and props.) *** update *** The outrunner we chose is in stock at Hobby RC. The battery rules remain, 8xNi or 2sLiPo.
This motor is best run with an E-Flite 9x7.5 prop and 8xKAN700 (2/3A size cells). Barb also stocks these.
Battery: 8 cell NiMh or NiCd or 2 cell LiPo. Size is open.

Prop: Open

Saftety: AMA standard Pylon safety regulations will apply. This means a ‘bump cap’ (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemId=1613548098 ) as a minimum.

Racing: Course is 2 pylons, 250-275 feet apart, parallel to the main runway.

The field of planes will be divided into heats, with a maximum of 5 planes per heat.

2 pylon judges are located behind the flight line perpendicular to the pylons. Starter and Scorekeeper will control the start and count laps for all aircraft.

A hand launch start is conducted with a countdown to “zero” announced to the pilots. 10 laps constitute a heat and must be flown by each aircraft in order to finish the heat.

Cutting a pylon is a loss of a lap. After 2 cuts a pilot is finished.

Mid-air collisions result in both aircraft landing immediately.

The heats will be shuffled between rounds, 3 rounds minimum.

Scoring: 1st place = 4 points, 2nd place = 3 points, 3rd place = 2 points, 4th place = 1 point. No points if plane did not finish.

Motors and batteries of the top finishers can be and will be checked for “stock” condition.

Rule Changes: (yes, there may be some at some point!) A race will be run with the rules as they have been stated prior to that race. There will be no changes to the rules until after all racing is completed at the current race. Any modifications to the rules will be addressed in a Pilot’s meeting after the race concludes and awards are distributed. No modifications to these rules will be done without 100% agreement of those registered Pilots attending a race. Any changes to the rules that are the result of the Pilots meeting would take effect starting at the next race.

(Updated 6-19-06 & 8-28-07)

Gene,

I really think that this can be fun.  I'm not that good a stick with the little electrics, but I think if I can avoid a crash that I would probably finish somewhere in the middle.  With the longer hours of daylight this year we should be able to get out after dinner and practice flying this plane.

Chuck G

Hey, the middle of the pack is going to be crowded! I don't anticipate being among the top finishers, by any stretch... IF I finish, I'll be setting a slow pace :)

I intend to do a bunch of testing and post my suggestions here. My plane should be complete theis week.

Gene,

I've been thinking a lot about this lately.

As you know, I already have a GWS Corsair kit, but am reluctant to build it with the stock motor, given my experience with the stock motor set up on the GWS Me-109.  Yeah, it would fly, but I wouldn't want to fly pylon with it.  Give it just a little too much elevator and you'd be rewarded with a snap roll (high speed stall).

I really think you should consider racing Slow Sticks.  There are a lot more members in the club that have Slow Sticks than there are GWS warbirds.  Besides, Slow Sticks are cheaper, easier to repair and probably even more durable than the GWS Corsair would be.

Yes, I know that the Slow Stick would be affected by the wind, but to be honest, I'd fly my Slow Stick in more wind than I'd fly my GWS Me-109 in.

The other advantage is that it is easier to swap out drive systems on the Slow Stick than the Corsair.  In addition, it'll be easier to inspect a motor/ESC/battery combo on the Slow Stick, since it's hanging out in the breeze.  Speaking of which, it'll also help keep everything cooler than it would be in the Corsair.

Now, the only question is, will you allow Slow Sticks with modified wings?  Although it's true that the low dihedral aileron-equipped Slow Stick will handle a bit better in the wind, it's also true that it will be heavier than a stock wing equipped Slow Stick.  Of course if stock wings have to be used, it's only $10 for a spare wing.  :)

Just my opinions...
Chuck

Yes, I suggested SlowSticks to start, but was shot down by several due to the wind thing. I really don't care. We could race IFO's or 3D planes for all it really matters, as long as we all have fun. Hopefully, we can get some good discussion going and come to a concensus.

I'm starting mine tonight, so should be testing in the air towards the end of the week. Being MY first GWS warbird, I am taking a lot on people's word. Let's figure out what's best and run with it.

THere's no reason would couldn't have both a slow stick class and a gws class. I know a lot of guys have the slow sticks already, so it might be a little quicker to get going.  I'd assume the wabirds might be better in the wind, but problaby not by much.  Guess we;ll have to stage the races at 6:00 a.m. before the wind picks up. :)

My original thought was a 'modified class', where we would only limit by a 'spec' battery pack or weight, or whatever. Personally, I'd build my own plane, so it would be easily replaced (with new modifications) after I crashed it (each heat?)... Something like 2s1320, or even 2s730 would be fine with me... Want to get crazy? 3s2100??? :D Again, I really don't care as long as it's cheap and fun... I'm easy!

Just got a suggestion via e-mail. What do you think?

Guys,  It sounds like we are all saying about the same thing, "Lets do something that we can have some fun doing that doesn't break the bank."  I also have a Slow-Stick already and would probably be just as happy flying it in the beginning as I would the Cousair.  The only thing I think might be an issue with them is the length of the course and the number of trips around. 

maybe you should run a poll to see what the over all consensus is ;D

A lot of good suggestions/cmts here.  Some comments have a familiar ring back to the days when we were starting Q 500 pylon racing.  Up front, it's sounds logical to let a lot of different types of equipment to be used, in the interest of making it easy on folks who already have planes in hand.  Experience shows however, there is a potential problem with such action.  Rather than starting with some sort of a level playing field, we will have one type plane or another which will prove to be the best suited in terms of speed/handling.  Those with a high "lets have fun" interest, will go out and get whatever proves to work best.  Many who try it with equipment they already have which proves to be less suitable, without any positive feedback concerning performance potential, will decide not to bother.  This is the reason that most clubs with some type of pylon program have standard guidelines, to prevent the "bar" from always changing in terms of equipment, and members getting negative feedback from trying to participate with unsuitable stuff.   

Again, from my experience, the simpler the rules, and more basic/standard the equipment, the better chance we have for doing something that a broader segment of the membership will find fun!

My two cents, we should all fly the same stuff, and I don't have a preference other than something inexpensive, which can also be fun for other sport flying!

I'd vote for limitations to powerplant and battery to help jumpstart the activity.  I'd certainly be more interested to participate in this venture if I didn't have to purchase a new plane (not for the cost, it's just another airframe I'd have to store).   Being able to use an airframe I already have, even if I need to replace the powerplant and maybe purchase new batteries is just easier for me.

If this event becomes more popular, I'd agree with Duane that over time, folks who didn't have the best hardware or setup wouldn't have much positive feedback to keep participating.  Perhaps that is when separate classes with additional restrictions are kicked off.

Got my Corsair done and tested. I like it!

I started with the slope glider kit, since I wanted a different paint scheme, and I have plenty of GWS 300 and 350 motors. I sanded the mold marks and filled the extra holes and recesses with DAP Fast and Final Lightweight Spackling (Wal-Mart). I filled the landing gear slots with some scrap foam. I cut and dremeled out the battery hatch for more room and air flow. I used 2 aileron servos rather than the single servo and torque rods, per the addendum to the manual. See the bottom of this page: http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/airfly/f4u.htm I did not use the rudder. I changed the elevator to a pull-up, rather than push-up configuration, by moving the pushrod tube above the stab. I filled the extra holes. I taped the leading edge of the wing, and the bottom of the wing and fuse to reduce landing rash.

Throws:
Elevator: +/- 3/8"
Ailerons: +/- 5/8" race (low), +/- 1" sport (high)

The setup I went with:

EPS-350C-C (5.33:1)
9070RS prop
2s1100 LiPo or 8x650 NiMh (2/3AA size)
3 GWS Pico Servos
Hitec Electron 6 rx
Wattage 15a esc (junk, buy a different one, but then again, it's an on/off switch for racing :) )
Weight: 13.25 or 15.5 oz

Here's some pictures and video (15M): Click here to watch USCG-Corsair (http://media.putfile.com/USCG-Corsair)

Looks like we will have a couple of kits, complete with servos, speed control, and a battery pack for the raffle this month!

I just sent an E-mail to barb to order the slope glider and motor.  Like Gene I like the idea of a white plane.  Seems like I'm always pushing the end of the day before I can get any flying in.  The white plane will give me a few more flights per day.   I'm in!   ;D

John

Now you are sure to win one of them in the raffle :D

Speaking of the raffle planes...

Dave Heisler, who ended up with one of them, is busy getting it ready to fly.  He happened to notice that the gearbox provided was the "B" ratio (4.43:1), instead of the "C" ratio (5.53:1) that Gene recommends.

I called Gene on Friday and he plans to do some testing on the "B" drive to see if it will work or if guys will need to "upgrade" to the "C" drive.

I think Barb (Hobby R/C) is ordering some of the "C" geardrives and they should be in stock sometime later this week.

Chuck

Indy RC South will be hosting their second Electric Pylon meet on Saturday, July 8th.

This event will start at 5:00 pm and follow the same format as the June 4th race, but with rebuilt pylon racing corsairs.  :)

Click here (http://www.indyrcsouth.org/index.php?topic=32.0) to go to the electric pylon racing rules thread.

Indy RC South will be hosting their third Electric Pylon meet on Sunday, October 1st.

(More details will be posted when they become available)

I got a 'B' box built upthis weekend, and will test this week!

Also, a good suggestion from Ivan:

Let's start a list of colors and or numbers here, so guys can try to keep their's different:

Mine is While with florescent Orange stripes.

Mine is Yellow with Black trim.  Same as some of my other airplanes.

ColonelG

Now that the tax season is over, I should finally be able to fininsh it!!!

Duane and I did a little more testing today :)

We tore up some stuff in the name of research!

We got his Corsair maidened, and a few more runs on mine.

First the good news: The 'B' ratio works fine. The EPS350C-B that came in some of the kits works very well with the 8x6 (RS/SF) prop. It is weak with the 8x5HD prop.

The bad news:

The GWS pack that Duane bought melted! He was having trouble getting it to take a charge, due to false peak tripping on his Triton. I told him he needed to do a trickle charge or 'forming charge' to make sure all the cells were fully charged, and then cycle it a few times. He plugged it into the rx pack port on his Futaba radio charger, thinking it would trickle it... it won't. It only puts out about 6.5v, and you need about 10v to charge a 9.6v battery... My suggestion is to tap a connector in the wire for the radio charge lead. This is designed for 8 cells and 100ma or so. This should be a safe way to form charge these packs overnight.

I also lost an aileron servo, due to landing and it getting banged. Duane and I had discussed a solution for this, and he has already done it on his. I will do mine tonight.

Some good news:

I found a great spinner! The ParkZone P-51 spinner. I found one at Hobbytown when I was wandering yesterday at lunch. It's $3.99, and about the perfect shape. Some air still gets into the cowl for cooling, but it looks good, and surely is more efficient.

Suggestions:

Do a forming charge on your new packs. This is done at 75-100ma (.075-.100A) overnight. Like I said, the simplest solution (to me) would be to tap a charge lead into the tx charge lead on your radio charger. You may be able to use a Triton or other charger and keep it from false peak tripping, I'm not sure.

Allow plenty of cooling! Most of you have seen the way I dremeled out the nose in the front of the battery compartment, and also opened the rear up to the inside of the fuselage. My packs are just warm. Duane's are HOT!

http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=V534576&pid=NKA06113

Interesting battery pack!

Looks like a possibility, although I don't think they're 1/2AA cells.

The KAN750 pack is only 1.2" wide and they're 2/3AA cells.
Also, the KAN 750 should only weigh about 4 ounces - over an ounce lighter than the KAN 950s.

http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/cellinfo.asp?invid=CBP750AA (http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/cellinfo.asp?invid=CBP750AA)

Chuck

Yea, sorry, it was late! I bet they are 1/2A cells. Let me see if I can dig up a similar cell or pack... Hmmm who knows what's correct, the weight, the size? Does look heavy. My KAN 650 packs (2/3AA) are 4.75oz for an 8 cell pack.

So, um, what's the solution for the banged up aileron servo?

Sorry, I guess I haven't shot a picture, and I'm 100 miles away from the plane right now.

Basically, I just took a tongue depressor, chopped the last 1" off the end, and split that down the center. Then I cut a slit and poured some hot glue in, and stuck the pieces in front of the servo arms to guard them from the ground.

I'll shoot a picture tomorrow when I get home.

Oops, guess I still haven't shot the protectors... Anyway, Duane, Bill, John and I got a chance to practice a little at today's ticket fly... Got Pat to shoot some video :)

(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h149/genebond/th_Pylon_Practice_1.jpg) (http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h149/genebond/?action=view&current=Pylon_Practice_1.flv)

 :o

I've got the raw video, and perhaps we can get a cleaner player the way Pat did the Fun Fly?

Just send me the file ;)

One issue which is a critical setup, and most everyone has not taken seriously... Elevator Control Throw.

+/- 1/4" is plenty! More than that and you won't be able to fly it.

Pat got it posted here: Video Section (http://www.indyrcsouth.org/content/view/34/40/)

Well, despite the wind (10mph with 20mph gusts?), a lot of fun was had by all. We had 8 entries for the first race, and it was a good number to get started with. We divided the field into 2 heats, and eventually whittled it down to 1 heat of 5 planes.

We made a few changes as we went, to make it more fun and easier to judge:

We pulled the pylons in to 250', so we could more easily judge the distance, and it didn't take all day to fight upwind to the north pylon.
We decided to use points from each pilots best 3 out of 4 rounds for the final score. Of course this created a tie for the lead, but the Main showed who really dominated :)
We will throw out 1-2 rounds for a season tally, allowing that some guys won't be able to make every event. The intent is to toss 25%, whatever that works out to be.

We want to try some weekday evenings. Tuesday would be nice, but that's a training night. Perhaps we could try to schedule it right before dusk, or something, though? Maybe Wednesday would be good as well. Certainly an item for discussion.

There was some carnage! Some planes were glued back together in the pits, able to make it for the next round. Some were not so lucky, but we believe all the pieces were found, and can be salvaged. If not, it's only $25 for a new airframe, though.

The Number 3 'Intimidator' lived up to his namesake, scaring rookies and small children with his aggressive manuvering :)
Al Coleman, as always, had a beautiful scale entry, almost too nice to race... But that didn't stop him from showing he had 'the right stuff' (note: 'the Wright stuff' is metioned above :) )
John Gaiter redefined the 'go ugly - early' theory, bu breaking a wing off, gluing it back on, and dominating his early heats.
Bill Rugenstein ran steady and consistant, despite what it looked like on a few laps.
Eric Gallager flew Ivan's plane, but had radio problems in the 2nd round, and 're-kitted' the plane right behind the flight line. He was doing well up until that point, and will be a force to contend with in future races.
Dan Campbell did well, until he bent his prop shaft ($3), but he will be back!
Col Chuck bowed out before the 1st round and kept score, until it was time for him to retrieve his Commander from the airport.
And me? What can I say...? I had fun!

Overall, a great time was had by all. Based upon feedback, a few things will be adjusted, but overall a success!

We can always use more entries and help. This is good, clean, cheap fun. Even the volunteers and spectators had fun.

We tested a few other planes out on the course for fun. The Easy-Star and Zagi seemed to be fun. Some of the smaller, faster planes I brought were too much :) I would love to try a 'Speed 400 - Direct Drive - 8 cell' class as well. It would be similarly cheap and fun.

Rules were updated per popular decision. See 1st post.

Care to list what the changes were?

300' length changed to 250-275'
Max number in heat increased to 5
Eliminated Mains, going just for 3-4 heats

Thanks Gene...  :)

There sure was a lot of carnage at the race this evening.
I would guess about 1/2 of the planes there suffered some kind of damage, although most were quickly repaired and were flying by the next heat.

This was the first race I was able to make, since I finally finished my plane (see photo).
It was a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to the next one!  :)

Could someone please post the final standings?

Thanks!
Chuck

Your wish is my command  :-*


Here's the final Tally:

(click on thumbnail for larger image)

Got another one under the belt, and it was a blast!

I believe everyone had fun, despite the carnage  ;D Some of the carnage was self-induced, but there was some very agressive piloting which resluted in the current record for the number of pieces re-assembled between heats, and continuing to compete... By your's truly.

Seems the #3 held true to his 'Inimidator' title, and so about lap 4 of the first heat, he flew right through the leader, smacking him nose first into the south pylon. Pieces flew in about a 10' radius, but were gathered up and inventoried. Epoxy was mixed, soldering iron was warmed up, and restoration began. 6 pieces were glued and taped back into 1, and the 2nd round had a full field! Luckily, the offender had a spare motor to loan the victim.

There were 2 heats of 4. Heats were sorted after each round, with the 1st and 2nd place finishers moved to the A, and 3rd and 4th moved to the B. This kept it mixed up and most everyone got to race with everyone. I think I raced with everyone but Bill (code name: Sandbagger, more on that later).

The 4th round was set up by point standings after the 1st 3 rounds. Chuck (beginner's luck?) Baker was 1st, and John (I only need 1 pack for a full day, because I don't finish more than 1 or 2 laps per heat) Gaither was last. The rest of us wound up somewhere in the middle.

The 4A heat started very well, with the deserving victim of earlier attacks leading and running quite well, with a pack of 3 trailing... Along about the 3rd lap, though, the world turned upside-down! The leader went around the north pylon, but the pack decided to cut ever so slightly inside... So first to last for the (now) 2-time victim  :-\ Due to questionable ethics and undeniable skills, The Intimidator took the lead in about lap 7, and hung on for the win. The only plane to actually complete all 10 laps came in last, of course...

4B started strangely! Dan and John threw their planes into the ground on the start! Dan was farthest from the flightline, so he finshed 3rd  ;) , despite John's valiant efforts to retreive his plane and throw it past Dan's! After a couple of laps Eric's hatch came floating down, soon followed by his battery pack and ultimately, his plane. Bill (Sandbag) Rugenstein managed to smoothly finish the race, having won the battle of attrition  ::)

I think the current format worked well. We can continue to discuss and finess the format as it makes sense. An additional date will be firmed up for August, as soon as we have the rest of the TBD dates firmed up.

Here's the results, click on the thumbnail for full size. (Pat may be able to do some wild fixing here, like the last results post):

Hey Gene,

I'm curious about something...

How can I be tied with Bill Rugenstein in the final standings when I beat him every time we raced (3x)?

Just curious...

Chuck

That's all a part of the Sandbagging strategy ;) He has figured out how to exploit the rules for personal gain! Lucky thing the trophys are all the same!

Seriously, the points are sort of a relic, and the finish in the 4th round is the closer standing. However, I was in the A and Bill in the B, but he got a higher point count than me... And we never raced!

I think I understand the first two, but what of the third?
Didn't we have Mains as the 4th round yesterday???

Chuck

Yes, by shuffling the heats the 4th round was a main.

I think we need to clear this up before the next race, as I think the shuffle up/down worked better, and the mains are more definitive than the points.

We also need to clear up the launch positions, so that everyone has an even shot at the initial lead, but there's a disadvantage for the guys to the south, as they would have to walk up toward the flight line after launching...

Saturday, July 15th, we had race event #3. It was very hot, a little gusty, and as much fun as ever!

5 of us made the event, but due to a few of the guys who had other obligations, there was very little carnage. The new guy (Chuck Baker) continued his domination of the 'stock class', prompting wild rumors of exactly HOW he was cheating  :D (it wasn't a matter of IF). In the end, though, it turned out that Duane was running a worn out motor, and I was running a 300 instead of a 350  :o Bill quietly nipped at Chuck's heels all day, just chuckling along and keeping his mouth shut!

I replaced the 300 with a 350 for the main, and took off with the lead  :) I lead up until the last lap, where Chuck's smooth and gentle course prevailed over my bank and yank (or maybe more accurately, Yank and Choke) style... He took the lead for the win... I'm thinking 9 lap races from now on  8) (just kidding!)

Here's the final tally. As can be seen, despite the worn out motor, Duane held his own, and quiet Bill was right there at the end of the day.

So, seems we have a new 'King of the Hill'... Who's going to take him down? Who had the most fun? Who improved the most? All questions to be answered as the season moves on...

We need to schedule another race soon. It's too much fun not to keep it up! We'll be addressing it in the next few days!

Contrary to popular belief and/or opinions, I was just running a new stock 350 motor.  Just ask Ivan - he was the first to inspect it.  :)

I did make a couple of changes from the first race I attended, that did seem to help in this last race.

I'm sure that Duane, the Intimidator, will be leaving me in the dust when he installs that new motor!!!  :)

It was very hot at the field for the 4th pylon race, but we still had five participants.

Bob Badger, Brian Merrell and Ron Allanson were the new faces at this race.

As expected, Duane's new "stock" motor pulled him back up to the front of the pack.

Fortunately, there were no mid-airs today, but Ron Allanson's bird did go down in the corn and Brian Merrell's had a bad launch on the last heat.  There were several close calls though.  At one point, I passed behind Bob Badger's plane and mine disappeared!  :)

It did become painfully obvious that we desperately need cut judges for future races.  Things got completely out-of-hand today with people blatantly cutting inside the pylons.

Agreed!

I'm hesitant to post the recorded results, as everyone there was sure that the documented winner (and several others of us) cut at least one turn :)

So, what are you suggesting?
Do we throw this one out?

Chuck

Hi all-  I have enjoyed every race so far this year, and yesterday was no exception.  There did seem to be more pylons cuts Saturday than in the past, I might even have cut one myself! ;D  Having said that, not sure there is anything to "throw out".  We have no big prizes (matter of fact no prizes period) and no yearend recognition planned at this time.  It may be good to continue a very relaxed approach to our pylon program the rest of the year as we sort things out and hopefully get more people involved.  Cut judges will certainly add more discipline to the flying of everyone.  However, as Chuck demonstrated at the prior race, and as I demonstrated yesterday, a fresh motor gives you a big advantage over others with motors having more flight time.  When we add more discipline, we probably should go to brushless motors in the interest of giving everyone a more equal footing in terms of "horse power"!    :)

Duane

Here are the reslults from 7/28. Click on the thumbnail to see it full size.

Here's the preliminary test result. I'm not happy with the BM2408-21 both from an efficiency and supply line aspect. If GWS will give us a slightly hotter wind, we'll be golden.

Click on the thumbnail for a full size look:

Gene,

For the baseline motor, EPS350C-C, you need to list its performance on the 8-cell 750mAH 2/3AA NiMH pack, not a 7v pack (2 cell LiPo).

I for one would not want to settle for less power/speed if/when we switch to brushless.

Chuck

Actually, I could test them at 6 volts or 12 volts for all it matters. The results are linear and relative. 7v is the common 2s baseline. With the 8x2/3aa packs we start about 8v, and drop to about 6.5 at the the end of the race...

As I said, none of these are the golden ticket. Everyone else seems to want to use 3s packs. If we want to exclude the non lipo guys we can too. I personally don't think we need to.

As always, I'm wide open for suggestions!

5PM will be the time. Sorry, I thought it was posted previously.

Bummer, looks like I'll miss this one...

This is the same day as the Float Fly out at Roy Wilson's farm.

Chuck

Aww Man, and I am going to try out a new brushless combo... May make it to the field with it tomorrow.

Gene,

Tried the HiMaxx 2015-5400 in my Corsair with the 8-cell Kan750 pack.
The GWS 9x7 prop pulled about 14A WOT.
The E-Flite 9x6 prop pulled about 14.3A WOT.

I'm going to see if Barb has any smaller props to try.

Also, I have the 2015-4100 with the HiMaxx gearbox.
It has three different gear ratios included, so maybe it might be a possibility as well.

Chuck

Barb had a GWS 8x6 prop (the orange one).

At WOT with the 8-cell 750mAH NiMH pack, it draws about 9.8A.

This gets the amp draw down where it should be for the motor/ESC, but I'm not sure how well it will fly on the 8x6 versus the 9x7 or 9x7.5 that we normally use.

I won't be able to make the race today, but will try to stop by before you guys finish so we can try to run this setup against the 350-C brushed drive.

Hope the weather cooperates for the race!

Chuck

what about these Brushless Motors (http://www.kontronikusa.com/motors/fun400-motors.html)  :)

Gene,

Have you settled on THE brushless motor for next year's pylon season?

Need to let Barb know so she can get some in before the season kicks off.

Chuck

Prices have shot up on several of the candidates...

I have a couple of new samples coming in, following the Chinese New Year, probably next week. If it works out as I expect, I would probably do a bulk buy, and turn them over to Barb to distribute. I don't mind handling it this way, if it means a $20 motor rather than a $40 motor... assuming they quality and performance are there.

I considered an outrunner, as the prices are steadier, but the efficiency is not there, and as pointed out earlier by John, the gearbox shafts are much easier to replace.

I just fear that if we go to 3s LiPo, the cost and volitility can get out of hand. For the most part, the 2/3AA cells have done well, as long as guys remember to break the packs in.

Gene,

Just to confirm, we ARE staying with the 8-cell 2/3AA NiMH packs for the 2007 season, right?

Have you arrived at a brushless motor of choice - inrunner or outrunner?
Any idea when we will be able to purchase them from Barb?

Thanks!
Chuck

It's going to be tight. I have not received the samples, and delivery is about 2 weeks...

Yes, intend to stick with the 8xNiMh, or 2s LiPo...

OK, The motors are in. There are some at Hobby RC. Barb has agreed to handle them for us.

I also got a few speed controls (12a), and some stick mounts.

The prices are:
Motor: $25
ESC: $17
Aluminum Mount: $6
Plastic Mount: $3

More is coming. I have just got the ESC's, so I need to get them to Barb.

The 1st raceday is Sunday, 4-29 @ 5pm. This will really just be a warm-up and cobweb cleaner, so don't worry, run what you brung, and get some testing done, if you want.

The rules will be basically the same. Last year's stock EPS350's are still allowed. The batteries will remain 8xNiMh, or 2s LiPo. I suggest the 8x2/3AA NiMh packs, or a ~2s2100 LiPo. I'll likely be running the LiPo this year, as my NiMh packs are pretty weak.

Technically, the NiMh pack should have an advantage for power, but it is just a tad heavier. You might be able to balance the plane with a LiPo pack smaller than 2100, but I couldn't. Using an E-Flite 9x7.5 prop, I pulled 11.5a for 5700prm. This compares with the stock motor of 10.8a for 5400 rpm.

My test flights seem very good. I have not tried other props, as this just felt so good.

Here's the programming instructions for the Tower Pro esc's I got in (Barb now has them).

Updated manual to remove Chinese fonts...

We got our first event under our collective belts last night, and I believe everyone had a ball.

We had a nice mix of new and old motors, new and old airframes, and NiMh and LiPo batteries. All seemed very competitive. A lesson was learned on batteries... cycle them and check to be sure they can perform! After sitting all winter, some had trouble getting any run time. a few cycles on a Triton or similar cycling charger should wake them up and tell you what condition they are in.

We had a few crashes, but luckily (for the most part) the 5 minute epoxy kept everyone in the game.

The newest change was cut judges. We had 2 heats of 4 last night, and the 1st heat judged the 2nd, and vice-versa. This worked very well, with your's truely leading the pack in cuts and DQ's :) By the time the main race came around, however, the pack thinned to the point that even I could win!

Duane did a little heeby-jeebie curse on Chuck's plane, and stole his mojo. Doug, flying Duane's plane ran out of mojo in the main (2 cuts you're out) Bill would have won, except for a cut. Pat nipped at my tail, keeping me honest the whole race. Bob left early for some reason? John had 'issues'.

Fun was had by all, especially the spectators. The birds, who had built nests in the shelter cieling were the only ones unhappy.

Barb has motors, mounts and speed controls. I have a few more mounts and motors to get to her, and I'll pick up the stock for the next meeting, or have her bring it. Again, the new motor seems to be just about even with the old, so no penalty for using the old, until it wears out.

Again, we get these events started at *5pm*, as stated above. a few guys came out rather early, and got in some practice. In one case, perhaps they used up all the 'good stuff' they had a little too early :)

Yea I had a few "Issues" New batteries not cycled enough,  Dumb thumbs and a collapsed wing.  I do want to thank all of you for waiting and helping me to re-engine the plane, Fix the Plane, and selling me a  9 X 7.5 prop.  Bill thanks for all of the glue. You might want to check your tool box closely and make sure you have all of your tools .
See you next race, hopefully with a new airframe!
John

This is part of the Electric Pylon racing series at the Indy RC South field using GWS Corsairs.
Racing is scheduled to begin at 5pm.

The rules will be basically the same.  Last year's stock EPS350's are still allowed. The batteries will remain 8xNiMh, or 2s LiPo. I suggest the 8x2/3AA NiMh packs, or a ~2s2100 LiPo. I'll likely be running the LiPo this year, as my NiMh packs are pretty weak.

Technically, the NiMh pack should have an advantage for power, but it is just a tad heavier. You might be able to balance the plane with a LiPo pack smaller than 2100, but I couldn't. Using an E-Flite 9x7.5 prop, I pulled 11.5a for 5700prm. This compares with the stock motor of 10.8a for 5400 rpm.

For more information, check out the thread at:
http://www.indyrcsouth.org/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,30/topic,32.0 (http://www.indyrcsouth.org/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,30/topic,32.0)

Still not sure what Duane did to my plane...  :)
Actually, my current theory is that there is something wrong with the new Spektrum AR6100 receivers (v1.2).  They sometimes take as long as a minute to initialize when power is connected.  I suspect that the receiver went into failsafe, as everything else appears to be working fine.

Regarding start time, I've added the rest of the pylon races to the website calendar and included the start times.  :)

Chuck

Come on Chuck  Excuses are like crutches.  They are for the lame and the weak!   :D

My crash on the other hand was purley the wind  ;)

For a listing of the 2007 race dates, go to the following thread:

http://www.indyrcsouth.org/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,30/topic,312.0 (http://www.indyrcsouth.org/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,30/topic,312.0)

Gene,

Are you gonna post the results from the last race?

Chuck

Hey guys,

Is the racing open to non club members? I just picked up one of the BL motors from Barb and thought I might have a go at racing with you. Is the Corsair still the plane to fly?

Thanks, Matt

Any answers for matt ???

After Speaking with the Club president today...  The official answer is that the electric pylon racing event is open to any current AMA member wishing to participate.  Since this is not a "run what ya brung" event you would need to comply with THE RULES (http://www.indyrcsouth.org/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,30/topic,32.msg58#msg58). 

The next pylon event is scheduled for July 15th starting at 5pm.

Sorry to have been lax in posting results. Life gets in the way!

Here's the first 3 races this year. We've had fun, and intend to continue to do so!

The topper has to bve last week. Not because I won, but rather because I beat Duane, using a battery I borrowed from him!  ;D

Thanks Gene, but I think you must be missing some data.
We've actually had (4) races so far.

Where are the results from the 5/19 race?

Chuck

[Mod Note] Merged  Topic

Hmmmm... Good question. I'll look!

Actually, I meged all the pylon racing topics into one... I still need to go through this topic and fix any incorrect urls and delete any old date related topics that no longer have any bearing (i.e  next pylon race is xx / xx/ xx  posted last year) ;)

Got me... I don't have score sheets ??? I don't think we kept score, the 5/19 was the Hot Dog Roast, and since Chuck wasn't there, we cheated a bunch :)

Gene,

I wasn't at the last race - thanks to Pat...    ;)

Did you cheat at the last race as well?

Chuck

Yep ;D But don't tell anyone!

Just wanted to remind everyone of the Pylon Race this Sunday (8/12) at 5pm.

We've decided to have a raffle after the race, so come out race, help, or just watch, and have fun, and win some prizes!

I don't have my replacement racer together yet.

Can I race my Me-109 instead???

Chuck

Are you serious? I thought I was slow.

So you want Al's spot?

Here's August 2007 results:



.

Was there a decision on a brushless setup?

Yes. The outrunner we chose is in stock at Hobby RC. The battery rules remain, 8xNi or 2sLiPo.

This motor is best run with an E-Flite 9x7.5 prop and 8xKAN700 (2/3A size cells). Barb also stocks these.

Well, even though there was a small croud, we had fun!

We played a little bit, running a figure 8 for a couple of heats :)

But, in the end, the deserving party won!

Well, don't think for a minute that your name didn't get drug through the mud this evening at the meeting!  :)

It *IS* hard to accept old age... But eventually you must admit you're a step slow, and it's time to turn the reigns over to the next generation ;) It happens to all of us! I think he saw his future, when Al Meyers had such a tough day on Saturday... It's coming up fast for some of these older guys :D On that note, though, it looks like Blake is getting a plane together to thump us all!

You'd think a guy who spends his whole life employed by us taxpayers would have more respect for those of us contributing to his income!

Due to travel schedules, we are going to have to move the pylon race that was scheduled for 10/7 to 10/20.

This will be in conjunction with the Hot Dog Roast.

We had a beautiful evening for the Club cookout and final pylon race of the season. A decent trunout for both events, although it would have been great to heve a few more!

6 of us started, and 5 finished.

By all means the highlight of the season was at the end of the 1st heat race. Since some cut judge decided to penalize me, I was running behind Duane coming into the last turn. I passed him in the back stretch, and he tried to cut the corner tighter and regain his lead, but hit the pylon. I think he set a record for the number of pieces a single airplane can produce!

Of course we all had a good time and a few laughs.

Doug Gifford won a new kit in the raffle, and several others of us won some accessories.

Thanks, guys for making it a great season!@

 :(  Looks like I missed out on all the fun... 
Figures, the one evening all week w/o wind or rain and I get food poisoning...
It's been a couple weeks since I've been out there.  It's been too windy or I have not been able to escape work early enough... :'(

I'm seriously thinking about getting into the pylon racing next year, but only if I can use a cheater nose cone...  ;)

The great thing was the good racing...

Duane and I fought it out in the 1st race...

Doug and I in the 2nd race...

And (rookie) Matt and I in the 3rd race! (Doug was there but lost it in a downwind turn, I believe)

The planes are so close, that maybe my spinner is making a difference? We'll know next season, as Duane said he's got his new one ready :)